my body, my choice?

At a dinner party about a month ago, i was ambushed by a woman i’d just met over a simple statement of fact.  Tonight, during “happy hour” with friends, i encountered a similar sentiment and am now at home – finding myself swimming in a gentle pool of bewilderment and bourbon.

What is it about the human mind that compels us to judge the behavior of others?

Last month, i was invited to an informal dinner party –  i was excited to have a chance to get out and play with some new folks.  i’ve known Joe for over two decades, and have always found him to have an enticing circle of friends.  If he invites me to dinner?  i never decline!

Just seven of us, we got started with the forensics of friendship – “So, how did you meet Joe?”.  Tom was a friend from childhood, and was there with his wife Gail.  He works in building maintenance and she is a surgical nurse.  Jim and Nancy used to run an art gallery, and she is a recovered Special Education teacher.  Peg is his next door neighbor, and she and Joe are the last two remaining homeowners on the street – preparing to take a stand against the city as they lay claim to “Eminent Domain”, forcing them to sell in the interests of an urban renewal project.

Dinner conversation was lively as we worked our way through film, local politics, the arts and a host of other topics.  i knew early on that Gail would be fun, as nurses at the dinner table are easily engaged in all manner of graphic and bizarre medical stories – but i waited until dinner was a happy memory before asking “What’s the strangest thing you’ve ever encountered at the hospital?”.

Shortly thereafter we all agreed that “Prolapsed Rectum” was a better name for a band than a restaurant.

At some point, the conversation turned to my circumstances.  Divorced, two grown children, professional geek – and enjoying a grand set of adventures in the current phase of my life.  Gail said “Well, I’m sure you’ll find a nice engineer to marry someday!”

In hindsight, i should have just said “Yep.  Reckon so…”  But that is not my way.  i explained that i’m pretty happy being single, have plenty of male companionship, and that i am not, in fact, looking to re-marry.  At least for the time being…”

This didn’t seem to register.  “Don’t you worry about being alone? What if you get sick?”  This drew out the “Ummm… not really.  i had cancer three years ago, got lucky and managed to get through it pretty well with support from my friends and children.  Not something that keeps me awake at night…”

It then took a rather ugly turn – although in hindsight i’m not sure how – when she said “So you’re just fuck-buddies with these guys, and that doesn’t bother you?”  Thankfully, her husband stood up and mentioned that they really needed to get home to let the dog out soon… The rest of us said our goodbyes, and continued on with pleasant after-dinner conversation.  Wasn’t really sure what to think of that, but let it go…

Tonight at happy hour, yukking it up with good friends from the office, stumbled into a similar quagmire.  Just like the last time, i really didn’t see it coming. 

My pals were justifiably giving me a massive ration of shit for the resort-business trip to the Caribbean last week.  The Ninjaneer threw a few targeted jabs about ‘cabana boys’… Nope, no ‘workshop nookie’, other than an unexpected platonic kiss from a rather charming European researcher.  Whom i later found out was not only independently wealthy, but married.

Female science friend immediately chided me – “Not again!  You’ve got to stop giving it away, girl.”


her:  Don’t give it away!  Respect yourself more than that…  There has to be something for you in return.

daisyfae:  But i’m not looking for anything in return – other than companionship, intimacy, adventure…

her:  Don’t you want to be in love?  It’s better when you’re in love.

daisyfae:  Not really.  i honestly don’t want that.  This is what i want… at least for now.

her:  Then maybe you just shouldn’t tell people what you’re doing.  I’m worried they’ll think badly of you.

daisyfae:  But i honestly don’t give a shit what other people think.  It’s my life.  Let them judge me.  So what?

We agreed to disagree, and i know that she cares about me, and certainly cares a great deal more about what others think of me than i do.  It’s genuine, not malicious.  We’re just coming at it from very different places in life…

Crunching it over, as i sit at home on a Friday night in my pajamas, while enjoying the last vestiges of the bourbon in my blood… 

Do we all have to live the same life?  Who decides what is moral?  Is my chosen lifestyle that threatening to others?  Women in particular?  Does a man in my position get the same reaction, or the ‘nudge, nudge, wink, wink’ treatment?  Should i care what other people think?

i’ve been pretty direct with others regarding my circumstances, usually handling all inquiries about my status with a response of “i’m dating aggressively”.  That usually gets the point across. 

In the future?  i think i’m just going to shut the fuck up.  Apparently that would be much less stressful for others.  Without a doubt much less annoying for me…

51 thoughts on “my body, my choice?

  1. Methinks Gail was worried you were going to poach her husband. Perhaps he’s been known to slip up and you looked like his type …
    I don’t think some people understand how you can be happy enough by yourself if they’ve never been that way. But don’t you think you have to be really happy by yourself before you can be really happy with anyone else? I’ve always felt kind of sorry for women (and men) who have never been on their own for any length of time. They’re missing out.

    Don’t let the critics harsh your mellow, girl. Some of us may be a tiny bit jealous of what a great time you’re having.

    • My ex mother in law lived in perpetual terror that some brazen hussy was going to come along and steal her husband away. Hah! Either of them should be so lucky.

  2. Fucking idiots, and yes i know the one was genuinely concerned about your reputation but as i see it most people have never spent any significant amount of time alone, other than spending time with my sons and my father i’d rather be alone, people are afraid to be alone because when faced with nothing other than themselves they find how hopelessly meaningless their lives have been, when you meet someone who is not afraid to be alone you’ve met a person who is most likely wise, compassionate, self-assured basically someone i’d talk and hang out with, someone who doesn’t crumble in the face of what society “thinks” they should be, fuck society and all it’s bullshit, see what happens when i come home early from the bar on friday…

  3. A lot of people find it threatening when they encounter someone happily challenging “social norms. ” If you can do that and be happy, what does that say about the decions they’ve made to follow the flock… especially if they, themselves, are unhappy.

  4. Judgment, a difficult thing when your on the receiving end of it. I think a lot about how easy it is to judge so many things in life without even being aware of it. When you have the courage to live a life on your own terms regardless of the box that other people may want to keep you in. It takes a lot of energy to really be true to your own life in spite of other people opinions of it. Ive been struggling a lot with this lately.

  5. “daisyfae: But i honestly don’t give a shit what other people think. It’s my life. Let them judge me. So what?”

    It’s far easier for some people to sit at home and judge those who are actually out there living life and accumulating happy memories for future years sitting in a rocking chair.

    Live life, don’t look back in years to come and regret the fact that you did not.

  6. “her: Don’t give it away! Respect yourself more than that… There has to be something for you in return.”
    Clearly she has a pretty shitty sex life.

  7. Wow! That was a great post! What a blindside over my morning coffee. May I offer a theory? This philosophy is a by-product of living in Ohio. When I was living in New York, being in my late (late) 30’s and not being married was never a cause for concern for anyone in NYC. But my friends/family back in Ohio? They were besides themselves. The rumors were rampant. I was either anti-commitment, a latent homosexual or afraid of women. None of that was true. I just really liked being independent. But back in the Buckeye State, the all were worried something was “wrong” with me. Idiots.

    And Mr. Kyknoord is correct. They’re all insanely jealous and only wish they could have the adventures you experience. Do not shut the fuck up. Do the opposite. Keep talking. It’ll drive them all crazy.


  8. beth – the wine was flowing that night, and i think Tom has left dinner parties early before because of his wife’s conversational style. they were both divorced prior to getting married, and one of her points was that ‘not everyone of us can afford to live on our own’, so there was a little of that thrown in… i like living alone – for now – but know that some folks can’t stand it. it’s been good for me, though…

    kyk1 – my ex-husband’s girlfriend is very jealous, and doesn’t want him to talk to me, e-mail me or have any contact with me. when it was time to move my daughter to a new apartment, she had to be there. apparently afraid i’m going to make a move on him. the kids think she’s a crazy bitch, but i remind them “Isn’t it cool that she thinks your dad is such a great catch that women are stalking him?” They think she’s more afraid of losing the meal ticket…

    kono – it was sincere concern, and that’s why i couldn’t dismiss that as easily as i could the cranky broad at the dinner party. she’s alone, but doesn’t want to be alone, so i really do understand where she’s coming from… sorry you had to come home early from the bar. i was pretty much in a similar state when i wrote that last night. friday night happy hour… damn. it’ll get you riled up, won’t it?

    jenny – you bring up an interesting point. we are, perhaps, at our most judgmental when we are unhappy. it’s hard to sling rocks at other people when we are skipping along happily on a sunny day, watching all the happy creatures dancing on the lawn! i know i get far more righteous when i’m miserable…

    renal failure – that word… i’ve heard it before… had to look it up, but even so, i’m not sure i fully comprehend the meaning. good thing i wasn’t all pms-ssy on either occasion, or there might have been broken ketchup bottles called into play to cut up a bitch…

    starla – yep. much easier for me to toss it out there than to catch it! (see prior post on ‘storm pussies’, and about 100 prior rants throwing rocks at people who don’t live life the way i think they should!). Obviously this sort of attack gets to me, because like every other female human in the western world, i was raised to believe in the shame of sex. It’s a precious gift, to be shared only with a man you love. Nobody will buy a cow if he can get free milk. Nothing says “relax, it’s just sex! be careful and have a grand time”…

    jimmy – i know this in my gut, but a lifetime of projected shame gets a little heavy sometimes. i don’t know how much longer i have to enjoy this particular phase of my life – cancer means i won’t be taking hormone replacements in a few years. who will i be on the other side? probably the same person, but perhaps with a modified sex drive. the sun is shining and i’m making A LOT of hay…

    syncopated eyeball – but it may be more prudent to keep my choices to myself. even when people ask. there is no need to wave the flag of personal freedom in the faces of others… i think that’s the lesson i’ve learned.

    DP – yep. the answer is “shut up” and keep doing what you want to do, when you want to do it, and with whomever is willing to do it with you. but not in public places. that can lead to embarassing arrests and photos and videos on youtube that will further traumatize the kiddies…

    kyk2 – she wants to fall in love and be part of a couple…. and there’s not much happening on the romance front (she is a scientist. even has a t-shirt that says “I’m a chemist. Flirt harder.”). And she’ll be the first to admit that the sex life is pretty grim… My suggestion is for her to pick up a hot italian at an international conference… but she doens’t want to hear that any more than i want to get slapped for my choices!

    FJ – i actually might shut the fuck up on this topic. if even my close friends don’t get how i roll? the folks at dinner parties, and casual acquaintances are never gonna track… it’s not my purpose in life to rattle their cages. i’m just looking for a good time…

  9. unbearable banishment – whoa. someone reads my tags? i think you’re onto something about the ‘regional’ thing. the pressure to settle down and breed here is pretty powerful. it’s The Ameruhcan Way. i also think the ‘threat’ is part of it, too. “If she’s out there giving it away for free? That TOTALLY devalues my pussy!” Economics in the most base sense…

  10. I will resist any generalizations about nurses for now (my ex is one). I have been defending my decision not to have kids since I was in my teens. I got many of the same arguments — fear of being alone with no financial safety net. It has always amazed me not only how strongly people feel about someone making a different choice, but that they feel comfortable setting in on people they barely know. How rude.

    • chris – chosing not to have children is probably even harder to defend than being a slut. it simply gets down to the fact that if someone rationally chooses the opposite of what WE choose, then that puts our logic and values into question. fuck ’em…

  11. The post and the comments evokes a desire to comment. Said comment would, however, be lengthier than common decency allows on another’s blog. Perhaps I shall pen my thoughts on my own blog. Someday.

    Didn’t watch this Stanhope vid (yet), but I’ve been perusing many, many more lately. He reminds me (a lot) of Bill Hicks (a commenter on one of his youtube vids said the same). I would love to be able to make a living standing on a stage essentially telling people what big assholes they are. And having them laugh at being told they are such douchebags. And, even better yet, paying to hear me tell them that.

  12. Screw them..Do whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want. (with in the law or don’t get caught) Let the little jealous people have their blood pressure go up out of sheer anxiety that you have the life they only dream of.
    so…just Fuck Them and love life any way you want.

  13. so, it never changes huh?
    We’ll never do right in the eyes of others, regardless of what we want out of life.

    regarding things being better when you’re in love… I’d have told her to put down the disney move and get a grip on reality.

  14. Daisyfae, last week I watched the movie “Gidget” which originally came out in 1959 when I was about 12. I didn’t know it at the time, but it had insidious messages in it that I and probably millions of girls internalized.

    One was the scene where Sandra Dee’s mother points out the needlepoint sampler hanging on the bedroom wall. It said “A woman isn’t a real woman until she brings out the best in a man.” These were words the poor kid (and the rest of us impressionable girls) were supposed to live by! Nothing about finding out who SHE was and what SHE wanted to do in life. Gah.

    You are my hero.

  15. Daisyfae,

    The last two comments hit some points on the head.

    The attitude isn’t uniquely American, but it’s especially so. A French shrink named Clothaire Rapaille wrote a book called The Culture Code. In it, he looks at how different cultures view fundamental concepts—including love and sex.

    For example, the Italians view flirting as play, and sex as something that confirms your humanity; it’s fun, and love lightens your heart. The British view sex as one of the few social equalisers, something which puts both the mighty and the lowly on the same level, and makes them both look equally silly.

    How do Americans de-code the idea of love and sex? As danger.

    You might have your heart broken. You might have it stolen. You might fall for a deadbeat. You might catch a disease. A pregnancy might ensue.

    Even worse, you might waste valuable time enjoying yourself with a nice man when you might have spent it with a nicer one. (See Lori Gottlieb’s Marry Him: The Case for Settling for Mr. Good Enough. A frightening little book if ever there was.)

    You might find yourself in a situation where your emotions control you, rather than the other way around.

    In their minds, you hadn’t told these women that you were happily single. You told them you happily freebased crack.

    Why such distaste for the adventure and messiness of a well-lived sex life?

    Tempting to say that American religiosity has something to do with it. Fire and brimstone are planted deep in the American psyche.

    Another Puritan legacy: the American belief in progress and self-improvement. Does one have a sex-life, or a sex career? If you’re dicking around having a good time, what does it get you besides a good time? Everything in life needs to move you toward a goal. Toward some kind of success.

    And the ultimate symbol of sexual success is a captive partner. Right? The beginning and end of sexual success couldn’t be simple pleasure, could it?

    What kind of message do you send to these women when you say you’re not interested in marriage? You actually say you’re not interested in success. You’re indolent, undisciplined and have no ambition for something better. You’re behaving like—gasp!—the LOWER CLASSES.

    A girl “gives it away” or “acts cheap”. Odd how money-talk works its way ino the discussion…

    There’s a powerful message about social status attached to sexual behaviour in the USA. By saying that you’re happy to have a nice sex life as a single woman, these stuck-up nasties have filed you back in the trailer park. (Though rather than “trailer park” you should always refer to it as a “gated community”.)

    The American Dream is one of social mobility. The dark side of that is a class-based snobbery which few acknowledge. You were just the victim of it, daisyfae. Perhaps not for the first time in your life, true?

    Next time, ask them precisely what’s wrong with enjoying your body as you see fit. Don’t let them off the hook. Call them on their bullshit.

    Then move to Europe. Professional, middle-class people have sex, and nobody thinks worse of them. I think there’s even an EU Committee to encourage it.

    • darling headbang8, I wish daisyfae and I had coordinated our Greek plans to fit in a sojourn in Germany with you too. any chance you and Mr Right could meet us on Lesbos in June/July?

      Actually, we could change it from Lesbos to some other island if you find our choice of island too ironic 😉

  16. rob – i’d be very interested in reading your take on this. ann’s, too. i’m absolutely, positively knocked clean on my ass by the comments here. every. single. one. i don’t think i realized how much guilt i still harbour for this particular choice in my life… as for the comedian? cannot wait to pay money to mr. stanhope tonight so he can call me a douchebag. and most amazing? it’s a family outing. our first since christmas. weird. talk about ‘dark comedy’…

    jenuine – do you know how much i love it when you de-lurk?!?!? this made me laugh so hard i had to make a run for it! brilliant!

    hisqueen – i’m safe. i’m honest with my gents. my children have a peripheral appreciation of how i live my life at the moment – and happily avoid details. i think i’m ok with it… fuck ’em. aggressively!

    stephanie – we can’t win on this one. as for love? i do believe that sex gets much, much better with the same partner over time. and caring about that person? absolutely magic… one fella? i’ve known in some capacity for over ten years. the other? hanging out for four and counting. the newest? almost 2 years. it’s not like i’m collecting these guys on street corners…

    texastrailerparktrash – ‘gidget’. 1950’s. the backlash from parents and society to the ‘free lovin’ hippies’ of the 1960’s…. yep. it’s wired into my foundation, and i was harboring far more guilt than i realized. this has been a remarkable comment thread… wow… thanks for cheering!

    aunt feminina – i love you. you know that, don’t you? i’m sure that’ll piss somebody off, too, but bring it!

    headbang8 – you, sir, have rocked my world! i’ll be picking up a copy of that book, and suspect this is going to help me relax and shed the shame. i have always had a high degree of comfort in europe, and hanging out with europeans. and here’s the kicker – one of my gents is irish. shouldn’t come as a surprise… what you describe is, in fact, YET ANOTHER WAY that women have been ‘managed’ here in the states. “pussy” is a commodity that must be controlled…. life is good. sex is great. i think i’ll go have some!

  17. Grrr…. I wish I’d been at that dinner party to give Gail a piece of my mind. I’m not even a “real” nurse (are you paying attention celticqueen?) and I’ve seen stranger things than a prolapsed rectum.

    How judgmental some people are. I show glimpses of a tattoo, streaked hair and a corseted body on my blog and to some people I’m suddenly a vile, perverted slag and unfit to do my job.

    And you, dearest daisyfae, whom I have met in person, are an intelligent, articulate, humourous, well balanced woman who knows how to make the most out of life. Ignore Gail and her ilk, your supporters here are all on your side

  18. We are so fucking sideways in this country when it comes to someones opinion taking precedence over our own. Not a lot of people have joined the, ‘it’s none of my business’ bandwagon or we wouldn’t be over communicated on Tiger’s Wood, conjoined twins, mall shootings, puppy cams and tweets out the ass.
    I like a great conversation and with that comes the occasional controversy, but I think for the most part MOST people feel that they have to convince the other person of something and won’t take no for an answer.
    I’ve given up on what people think about me….it doesn’t matter anyway.

  19. In reading about atheism, I discovered this gem. I have added the bolded words.

    “Fantastic doctrines (like Christianity or Islam or Marxism or marriage) require unanimity of belief. One dissenter casts doubt on the creed of millions. Thus the fear and hate; thus the torture chamber, the iron stake, the gallows, the labor camp, the psychiatric ward, the judgemental harpies (of both sexes).” — Edward Abbey.

  20. I shouldn’t be stunned that she actually said that you as I have been hearing many of the same things for years myself.
    (Hell, you should have heard all the fuss when I was pregnant with my youngest …. I wasn’t married, and had no intention of marrying his father.), but I am.
    More so, I am saddened.
    Clearly the woman was projecting her own feelings of inadequacy over finding a love relationship onto you, and you know, it’s always easier to drag one down than to be accepting.
    I say live and let live.
    I live my life the way I want, within the boundaries of the law.
    I applaud you for knowing what you want and NOT being afraid to state it.
    Most people don’t have a feckin’ clue!
    We only go around big blue once …. live YOUR LIFE!
    Proudly and out loud! 😀

  21. DONT Stop (unless it is becoming a total bore for you)! Your leadership is inspiring. Without it, the great unwashed will remain dirty… if they chose to toil in their own dirt, let them!

  22. Eish. I have the same conversations when people find out I don’t need to get married. I don’t need the paper / church / government to tell me who to love – and to tie them to me until they’re forced to get off the couch and get a divorce, rather than being free just to walk out the door if they want. Rather that, than someone feeling trapped in something.

    My theory is that people don’t LIKE others to live differently. Because it makes them nervous. And a little angry. Because they didn’t.

  23. My take? I think most people aren’t able to have sex without forming attachment to one degree or another. We were designed this way to ensure that enough of us would settle down and breed.

    American women are raised believing that love (and looks) are a competition. Every women is are rival, even our friends. Therefore those who don’t adhere to Mother Nature’s model are suspect and dangerous competitor b/c they are if effect “cheating”/

    One of the worst things that came our out of feminism was the idea that in order to be equal, we had to be able to “do it like men” in every arena and this includes the “non-attachment” relationship ie: casual dating, FWB’s and the like. The reality, of course, is that men don’t do that well either but their early socialization makes it a bit easier for them to pretend that they do.

    The second worst thing to come out of feminism – “finding yourself”. I don’t know how many times I was told that once I learned to be alone I could discover who I truly was and THEN I would meet someone. As if. WTF? Most people go through life never knowing themselves and are blissful in their ignorance.

    The first woman? I don’t think she was jealous. Judgemental, but I doubt she envies you b/c she probably thinks her life is so wonderful that it should be a beacon like example for all women. She perhaps she thinks you are slow? And was frustrated by her inability to retrain you.

    The second woman is just your friend who is like most people who can’t fathom the idea of sex without building attachment and she is worried about you.

    The first is easily dismissed and the second is tolerated b/c she cares.

  24. nursemyra – thank you… the woman at the dinner party wasn’t worth the energy it would have taken to talk to. never mind that she’d have been incapable of getting the message… while i appreciate the support from the readers, what i REALLY appreciate are the thoughtful insights, shared. this is uncomfortable turf. the fact that folks are spending a little bandwidth crunching on it is most appreciated… i had a chance to talk with doug stanhope briefly after the show! made him chuckle a few times, which made me very happy! he’s adorable…

    carlae – i mourn the death of rational debate — where no one has to be converted, but where ideas are discussed, relative merit and logic are evaluated, and people can defend a position that has been taken without resorting to emotional pleas and spouting rote soundbites from the television tube… makes me want to give up, sometimes.

    archie – great observation! very true. there is part of me that does want to get out there and rattle those cages. shake up the belief systems that are unquestioned by blind followers… but there’s another part of me – the scientist – who believes i should just observe. take notes. sort out the behaviour based on what i see, rather than interfere. there is a third part that says “i’m too tired to take this on. i just want a nap”. that’s the one i listen to mose these days…

    blazngscarlet – this discussion has also made me realize that i’m not exempt from throwing around my own judgmental rocks. i make assumptions about people that are unfair – if someone regularly goes to church, i will assume “blind sheep”. if someone watches Fox News on a regular basis, i will assume “mindless drone”. if someone thinks Eric Clapton’s “Wonderful Tonight” is a beautiful love song, i will assume “Idiot with poor taste in music”. It’s a pretty long list… i need to up my own acceptance quotient along the way…

    Bb – don’t stop my current practices, or don’t stop talking about it? not even close to getting bored with the prior, but have grown tired of taking hits for the latter… i’m not a leader. i’m just a good time. i wanna fart around. i don’t want to hurt anyone else. is it naptime yet?

    dolce – i guess we all can hold a few beliefs that make others uncomforable. “living differently” does inspire anxiety. fear of the foundation being rattled – as well as a fear that we’ve settled for less. interesting…

    annie – the attachment is impossible to deny, and overcome. i am attached to my companions, each connection unique. it IS biology. the species will survive best with maxium parents, and having a pair-bond of some sort is helpful when raising the offspring. the ONLY reason i can accomodate my companions in this way is because my children are grown… what affect does it have on them now? i dunno. we discuss it. we’ve discussed this post, and the comments, at length, and i don’t think they are worse for it…

    feminism did us a few favors, but there were a few stinkers buried in there as well. “doing it like men” won’t completely work – we’ve got a finite number of eggs. that changes how we’re wired. ‘self-actualization’ as a goal was also a bit of a misfire. i know a few people who have made this their life’s work, and as a result are sort of missing out on that whole “living life” part.

    agree with your take on the tale of two women. the first? if it hadn’t been for the 6 other dinner party guests, including my friend and her husband, i might have played with her a bit. but she obviously wasn’t listening. my friend? she is genuinely concerned – and honestly, if we hadn’t had the conversation friday night, i’d have completely written off the first woman’s jabs…

  25. Yay for you, daisyfae!

    A lot of what I would have said has been said – your body, your choice indeed.

    However, I do have a small comment to make on the issue of “shutting the fuck up”. You are, of course, entitled to do this if you wish. But if the attitude equating sex with money/social status truly gets up your nose, I’d urge you to go right ahead and flaunt it in as many faces as possible. Because none of us women would be able to work, vote or own property today if other women had “shut the fuck up” in the past. I know that kind of sounds like a feminist rant but as a woman (and a woman of mixed blood), I’ve shut up in the past and felt smaller for it. Women who use their bodies as currency and don’t admit that this is prostitution annoy the fuck out of me. And I’m horrified that it seems to be becoming the norm again, and in my country too. Apart from your gun laws *ducks for cover* the pruriency of the US is one of the reasons I’ve said I’d never make my home there. I mean seriously, look at Hollywood. how many women have you ever met who actually keep their bras on during sex? Not me (unless that was part of the whole deal we were going for, that is…)

    OK, my 2 cents over…

  26. I had many points to make but Doug and a few others seems to have gotten there before me….so…there you go….take no shit and live yer own life being all I have left to offer….

  27. OMFG, girl! That’s EXACTLY what I have been lamenting for a year now. People ASSUME that a woman needs to be married to be happy and emotionally normal. They project all their own insecurities and self-righteousness about being happily single onto me. It’s like a religion for them, and they’re trying to get me into their church! But I don’t wanna join up, asshats! So suck it!

    Sorry, I used you as a sounding board. I just think that nobody should judge anybody else or tag me with some random cultural standard. This is America. Home of the free and the brave. That’s you and me, chica.

  28. Wow, I have just found your blog and stumbled into this quagmire of comments (not really a quagmire at all, but it sure sounded good i thought)….Anyway, all i keep thinking is what a bitch that Gail woman turned out to be. Holy crap. I never let things like that go, I would have been retarded for the rest of the evening if i copped that little jab….

  29. mine – thanks for commenting! the length of this thread is a bit intimidating, but i’m tickled that folks are still dropping in. on the ‘shut the fuck up’ issue, i’m still vexed. i don’t want to wear this as my badge of identity – there is an awful lot more to me than this one particular lifestyle choice. but at the same time, if it is conversationally and situationally appropriate? i’ll keep yappin’…. it’s kinda how i’m wired! and there are more than a few reasons i’m considering opportunities to live abroad in a few years. hoping this whole ‘religion & politics’ thing blows over…

    manuel – doug said it quite well. in fact, i’m going to start lobbying the financial news media to start tracking ‘pussy valuation’ as an economic indicator…

    fragrant liar – feel free to sound away over here! i always put the caveat ‘for now’ on my status discussion. i don’t know what i want for lunch today, let alone how i’m going to want to be coupling five years from now… the only thing i know is that it will change at some point. but that’s not what i’m worrying about at the moment…

    UK – line forms to the right. keep it orderly. i’ll have some snacks sent out…

    ruby – welcome to the park! thanks for stopping by. it’s not usually quite so intense over here, but this has been an interesting thread for sure. in fact, the comments are FAR better than the original post… best thing about this particular trailer park? the visitors! and like you? i usually can’t keep my mouth shut when someone unloads a big can of stupid in front of me…

  30. About that “tact” thing…
    Spider Robinson had one of his characters say, “Tact? I always though that was a mutual agreement to be full of shit.”

    I’ll echo Headbang8 above: mostly people are scared when you do something different because they believe it reflects YOUR opinion of their choices. Because that’s how they see the world. Weird, huh? I’m just not that self-centered.

    Keep up the great life!

  31. yogi – the only time i generally deploy tact or any form of diplomacy is when there is a need to prevent collateral damage. those poor folks who might get caught in a crossfire… and i have a threshold. when the bullshit gets too high, i blow. Agree that by living differently it’s easy to interpret that as an indictment on those who don’t – a good thing to remember as i try not to judge those who chose to live a life of stability, monogamy, safety and security…

  32. i dont have a big social life. okay i’ll admit, not much of one at all…but damn whatever happened to old fashioned manners? here again, the things people say tell us a lot about who THEY are than anything else. kinda sounds a bit insecure doesn’t it? i’m sorry but they dont care about you. women like this are exactly why i dont socialize more.

    i know your problem ~you have too much social life! if you’d be more of a recluse like me you wouldnt run in to these chicks! 🙂 steer clear of the bitches!

  33. Well, I was basically going to say the exact same thing as Headbang, except far less eloquently and with a whole lot more “fuck those fuckin fucks” tossed around.

    Also, the worst thing to come out of feminism? All those people misunderstanding and hating on goddamn feminism and women in general.

    People never ask me if I’ll ever settle down and meet a man. They never say things to me like, “just wait until you have kids” or “I can’t believe you’re single.” Probably because I’m combative, not very pretty, and funnier than everyone else. That’s my logic.

    Personally, I hope you don’t shut up. I hope you talk about it. I hope you explain that what’s right for one person isn’t right for someone else, I hope you tell them that even though they mean well, the reason it’s hard to be single is not because you don’t have a man to take care of you – it’s because you have to explain yourself to people all the time.

    It’s like it seems worth getting married and settling down just so people will shut the hell up and stop judging you.

    “Don’t feel sorry for me, because I’m not you. When you pity me like that, I wonder why I don’t pity myself. I was fine until you showed up and told me, in so many words, that I am incomplete without a man. I always thought I was whole, and now I’m questioning a position that’s been fulfilling for years. So thanks, bitch.”

    Sorry. People piss me off.

  34. lynn – that may not be a bad strategy! but i’m trying to do a little more ‘consider the source’, and ‘consider whether attempting to have a logical discussion with the source is going to make any difference whatsoever in the outcome of the evening’… and keeping my own stress level as low as possible!

    rassles – you have managed to get me just a little bit riled up about this again. and that may not be a bad thing… for the most part, i’m really lazy these days. engaging in argument as a method to change an opinion is pretty pointless. but arguing just to fuck with them? to call them out on the bullshit and make them go home and say “what the fuck was THAT?” That’s a damn fine reason to not shut up. And i’d still go gay for you…. planning to arm wrestle Ginny and nursemyra if it comes down to it…

  35. My goodness you stirred up a shit-storm with this one. And yeah, if you live life differently, you get the Judgey McJudges. Have fun with it while you can. I did at your age, heaven knows. That might continue or it might not, but as long as you are safe and honest, I don’t see what the big deal is. Once you are finished having crotchfruit, marriage is sometimes more a burden than a benefit. And as I have proven, you can live alone, even in poverty, if that suits you. BTW, the box of goodies for Xmess via St. Patrick’s Day arrived yesterday. Om nom nom. Your Xmess via Easter is still in the works.

  36. silverstar – the comments were far better than the original post on this one. suspect there were a few quiet dissenters, and wish there’d been a little more alternate viewpoint, but the resounding support for trying to let go of the decades of crushing social pressure toward monogamy for life has helped clear my head on this one a little bit… glad the yummies and cd’s arrived! really wanted the celtic music to you before st. patrick’s day, but you know how it goes!

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